I often tell clients and investors: "If I can find one or two opportunities a quarter, I'm ecstatic." As we close out the third quarter of 2009 in a few days, I'd like to share with you some of the investments we've made. As I mentioned in this post, I simply don't have the time to maintain an F Wall Street portfolio, but that doesn't mean I haven't been investing!
We'll start with a position taken on July 27, 2009 — Volt Information Sciences. It's the company to which I alluded in this article, and then mentioned in this comment. Below is the text of an e-mail I sent to clients shortly after I bought the stock. After the text of the e-mail, I'll provide some thoughts.
Dear Joe,
Today we invested in Volt Information Sciences Inc. (NYSE:VOL, "Volt"), a provider of staffing services and telecommunications and information solutions throughout the U.S. and Europe. Odds are, you've never heard of Volt, and a quick look at the business' performance might leave you scratching your head over this one; so, let me explain.
Remember: We always want you to be as comfortable with your portfolio as we are.
Volt is a very "ordinary" business — thin profit margins in good times, and a very average return on equity under normal conditions. (Average return on equity for American businesses is around 12%.) Over the past ten years, Volt's revenues have been steadily increasing and earnings, while volatile, have also risen over time. Still, it's not the next Google.
What is it about Volt that attracts us? Ben Graham and "net-net."
A "net" is a stock that is trading for less than its "net liquidation value" — its break-up value. You may also know these as the low "price to book" or "below liquidation value" stocks discussed in many value investing books. A "net-net" is a stock that is trading for less than its "net working capital less long-term liabilities" — basically, a company that has so much in cash, accounts receivable, and other "current assets" that it could pay off all of its liabilities (short- and long-term), and still be liquidated for less than its trading value, assuming its properties, equipment, and other long-term assets were completely worthless.
Ben Graham — the father of value investing — discussed these in both The Intelligent Investor and Security Analysis
, and Buffett reportedly spent his early years at his partnerships investing primarily in net-nets.
The math behind net-nets is simple, and we'll illustrate it with our recent investment in Volt.
Volt's market capitalization — the price at which we could theoretically purchase the entire company — is about $163 million. The company reported (May 3, 2009) $633.8 million in current assets, which include cash-on-hand, accounts receivable, inventories, and other cash expected over the next twelve months. The company also reported $61.2 million in property, plants and equipment, and another $111.5 million in various other long-term assets, both tangible and intangible.
The sum of the company's liabilities, both short- and long-term, was $411.2 million.
Temporarily ignoring the roughly $173 million of long-term assets (properties, goodwill, etc.), the company could quickly be wound up in the next year for $633.8 (current assets) minus $411.2 (total liabilities), or $222.6 million — roughly 25% more than the market capitalization — and that's assuming that the properties, equipment, and all other long-term assets are totally worthless.
If Volt shut down today and liquidated in an orderly fashion, we would likely earn more money — probably 15% or so more — than we paid today. And though the market seems to be pricing Volt as if it's going out of business, we see no reason that it should.
In its fiscal years ending October 29, 2006 and October 28, 2007, the company's operations generated more than $33 million of owner earnings. For the fiscal year ended November 2, 2008 — a tough year for all businesses — operations generated nearly $24 million of owner earnings. The first six months of this fiscal year which ended on May 3, 2009, the company had negative owner earnings of -$3.8 million — a small sum when compared to its financial and cash position. Its short-term liabilities are well covered and the company has virtually no long-term debt.
Though its earnings have fallen significantly and turned negative over the past two years, this hasn't caused a rapid cash burn. Furthermore, the company has recorded $14.4 million in impairment and restructuring costs so far this year — costs that are not likely to occur over a long period of time.
Through the worst part of this recession (the first two quarters of this year; still, I wouldn't break out the bubbly as anything can and does usually happen), the company's cash burn rate was such that it could reasonably operate under those extreme conditions for more than ten years.
Our margin of safety on this purchase appears to be two-fold:
We plan to exit Volt at the sooner of:
If you bring up today's chart on Volt, you'll see that it spiked in early trading on no news. That was us, and it speaks to the ridiculousness of the markets and why prices mean very little.
We placed a large order for Volt relative to its regular trading volume. Though the market maker tried to sneak us in, the market's speculators — seeing the aggressive buying — also jumped in to ride the Volt trend of the day. Ultimately, I expect them to be disappointed as our early, aggressive buying dried up when the order was filled, and now they are sitting on short-term, trend-trading holdings that they will likely dump at any price, causing Volt to drop and forcing them to take a loss.
That is the nature of the day-to-day markets. The actions of one large investor can affect the actions of dozens or hundreds of smaller investors; and, while every approaches the same stocks with different intentions (long-term holdings vs. short-term trading; 2% daily gains vs. 100% multi-year gains), they all act together to create wild volatility and unpredictable daily price changes.
By not taking our cues/instructions from price changes, we can be much more patient in our approach and have results that may not correlate with the overall markets.
As always, if you have any questions, please let us know.
Joe Ponzio
End e-mail
In March of this year, I presented to MBA students at Howard University in Washington D.C. I modified Buffett's "Be greedy when others are fearful" by summing up my investment strategy as:
The time to invest is when you find an asset surrounded by fear, where the risks of that asset are grossly overestimated.
When it comes to investing, the first question you must seek to answer is: What can I lose? It's not a question that is answered with absolute precision; but, it can be answered to a certain degree. In this case, the market seemed overly fearful of Volt — an employment company in the midst of rising unemployment — and priced it below liquidation value.
What could I lose? If the company were liquidated in an orderly fashion, I'd expect to earn about 15%. If it survived as an ongoing concern, I'd look for a 100% or so gain. As Mohnish Pabrai put it: Heads I win; tails I don't lose much or win a little. (By the way, Pabrai's was a great annual meeting; and, though I'll write about it soon, Miguel Barbosa at Simoleon Sense posted some notes here as well.)
Could I lose in other ways? Sure! The price could have fallen 50% from our purchase price, and then never recovered because the market never went on to realize Volt's value. The economy could have been brought back to the brink and we could have entered a full-blown depression, wiping out Volt in the process. So...yes — there is always a way to lose money. Still, the key is trying to minimize those risks by investing in companies with:
Then...you have to pay such an attractive price that the risks of losing money are minimal at best.
They won't all be like Volt — moving almost straight up from the point of purchase. In fact, more times than not, they'll be more disappointing than not because you'll never know when the fear will pass and the party will start. They'll be volatile; they'll be ugly. Then again...that's what makes them so beautifully attractive.
(Why didn't I buy it at $4 back in March? It wasn't on my radar!)
It's always good to go back over past investments and see what worked and what didn't. If you can sort through your past holdings and ignore the "lucky" ones, you'll probably begin to find that your mistakes (and my mistakes) led to losses because the companies in which we invested didn't have a strong enough edge or didn't offer a solid enough financial base, and we paid too much money for too little quality.
Investing is all about looking into the future; so, it's impossible to know for certain whether or not today's purchases will be long-term winners. Still, you'll be amazed at how much risk you can mitigate and how satisfactory your results will be if you simply focus on paying cheap prices for good assets surrounded by fear, where the risks to those assets are grossly overestimated.
We also invested in three other companies in this quarter, and I'll get to those in a future post. Four companies purchased in three months — now you see why I haven't been around! Thanks for your patience with my absence!
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sandesh trivedi said,
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Ron said,
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BreitBurn Energy: Playing the Commodities Crash
Steve
Sep 29th, 2009
3 comments
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Joe Ponzio
Sep 29th, 2009
Joe on twitter
Ponzio Capital
I try to send an e-mail each time we buy or sell something. As I mentioned above, my goal is to make my clients as comfortable with their portfolios as I am. Otherwise, all they see is a ticker symbol and wildly volatile prices, and that's a sure-fire way to make them uncomfortable, scared, or second guess the strategy.
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Francisco
Sep 29th, 2009
1 comment
I have two question:
- How big a position would Volt be in your portfolio? (1%? 2%? 5%?)
- Why would you sell the shares after 2 years, if the stock has not risen 100% and nothing materially adverse has happened to the company?
Thanks!
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Value Investing
Sep 29th, 2009
5 comments
I only found one :(
I agree with you 100% on how hard a good investment is available, especially after a huge market rally. Yet, I find certain bloggers and professionals talk about bargains all the time. I'm I missing something?
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Anand
Sep 30th, 2009
3 comments
Eagerly awaiting information on your three other investments. Hopefully, we still have enough opportunity to get in.
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Joe Ponzio
Sep 30th, 2009
Joe on twitter
Ponzio Capital
I'd sell after two years (depending, of course, on what's happening at that time) because I don't expect Volt's intrinsic value to rise rapidly and I don't expect the price vs. intrinsic value to widen much based on intrinsic value growth. As such, I would consider walking away if I could find opportunities elsewhere. I also want to set long-term expectations to everyone that it's a long-term investment...not a trade.
Would I absolutely sell after two calendar years? Ultimately it depends on what's going on in the business and the margin of safety at the time.
Value Investing: Apparently, you are missing something — the need to trade widly. I saw an article the other day by a "value investor" (not you, of course) that was recommending a stock at $38 with a sell target at $41. To me, that's nuts. BUT...it's the only way for him/them to keep readers coming back, to get them to pay for their "premium" content/services, and to stay out in front.
I'd rather buy that same stock at $20 and not buy another stock or write another article for six months!
Anand: I don't know when I'll post them, but PLEASE don't buy the companies I discuss without doing your own thorough analysis...if for no other reason than this: I don't know if or when I'd be able to write an article after selling the position. Buying stocks is great, but you need to know when to get out as well, and I can't necessarily offer that here. (That's why I got rid of the F Wall Street portfolio!)
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Ninad
Sep 30th, 2009
1 comment
As always I like your clear style of communication.
My question is at a generic level and not specific to Volt. My concern is that in a Graham stock it could turn out that " Tails I dont lose, but Heads I dont win".
There could be Graham stocks with ROE lower than cost of capital which could over long periods of time destroy value. So fundamentally it might remain cheap but the market never gets around to unlocking value. The real loss then is the opportunity loss.
Buffett has the advantage to being able to buy a company competely or atleast have significant stake to be able to influence management to unlock value.
One way to look at it is a to build a sub portfolio of graham stocks mechanically and even if the market recognises a few of them and unlocks value the portfolio on a whole could deliver returns.
Would appreciate your view on this.
Cheers
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Joe Ponzio replied,
I agree. With Volt – and any other net-net – I'm not just looking at liquidation value, but am also trying to determine whether or not the company will actually be liquidated.
If I think it is going to be liquidated, I'd demand an even larger margin of safety to the net asset value.
As far as "opportunity cost," that's why I set a timeframe on certain opportunities (like Volt). If, after two years, the market hasn't started to realize the value, then I have to decide whether I should continue to hold or swap out for another opportunity.
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12/19/09
Satya
Sep 30th, 2009
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Joe Ponzio replied,
Screen for stocks trading for less than book value, and then go through them one by one. There is no automatic way (that I know of) to drill down asset quality and true liquidation value – just elbow grease and a lot of coffee.
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12/19/09
Jason Linden
Sep 30th, 2009
3 comments
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Justin
Sep 30th, 2009
1 comment
Thanks for the insight into your buying decision on VOL. I trying to trace back your numbers for Owner Earnings I am not able to under stand how you came up with $24m for Owner Earnings fiscal year end November 2, 2008. Via Morningstar I see that Free Cash Flow is at ($96m) for fiscal year end 2008. Can you please explain how you turned that into a positive $24m.
Thanks!
Justin
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Joe Ponzio replied,
Owner earnings is a bit more in depth than free cash flow. It's explained in various posts on this site and in the book. If you pick apart the statement of cash flows line-by-line, including information gathered throughout the annual report, you'll probably come up with a number similar to mine.
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12/19/09
Graham Jervis
Oct 1st, 2009
8 comments
what are your thoughts on other net nets like
NCTY
QXM
FORD
GRO
these companies seem to be trading at some reasonable discounts to net current assets minus total liabilities vs share price.
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Joe Ponzio
Oct 1st, 2009
Joe on twitter
Ponzio Capital
Satya: I look in a lot of different places for stocks. 52-week low lists, below book value stocks, etc. This one happened to be in the low price-to-book screen — along with a number of others I looked at.
Jason Linden: That's partly why I don't know if I like Volt as a long-term holding, but really liked it as a liquidation/Ben Graham play.
Justin: Free cash flow and owner earnings may be very different, especially in smaller companies. I discuss it in the book and in a number of posts on this site. Volt had a lot of charges that would affect earnings and free cash flow, but that one could eliminate when calculating owner earnings. (One-time, non-recurring, or short-lived expenditures that wouldn't affect cash flow in the future.)
Graham Jervis: I'll have to take a close look at them. Perhaps as important as the liquidation value is knowing how much cash the business will burn before things turn around. If the company is bleeding cash, the liquidation value may plummet (and even below the market price), thus killing your margin of safety, intrinsic value, and investment returns.
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Allen
Oct 1st, 2009
47 comments
When you get a chance, can you explain your reasons for getting out of Adobe? Did something change within your analysis, or did you just find better opportunities?
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Joe Ponzio replied,
A combination of both. When the economy turned sour, I came to two realizations:
A portfolio is a living, breathing thing and needs to constantly be monitored, even though it doesn't need to be actively traded.
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12/19/09
Graham Jervis
Oct 1st, 2009
8 comments
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Noel James
Oct 3rd, 2009
I have been a long-time follower of F Wall Street and loved the book as well. I want to invest intelligently, but I find that I don't have the time to analyze hundreds of companies every year, or the expertise to dive as deep in to a company as you do.
So a few questions:
1) Have you ever thought of starting a mutual fund for the "little guys" like me that don't quite meet your investment minimums?
2) If not, what are your thoughts on having an "automated" investment system where we can invest alongside you? Maybe a subscription service or like Greenblatt does?
Basically, do you have a way for us "little guys" to invest intelligently WITH you instead of with HELP from you?
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Joe Ponzio replied,
I've thought about starting a mutual fund, but the problem is the constant inflows and outflows of capital from non-long-term investors, which can hurt the performance of our long-term investors.
At Ponzio Capital, clients can (and do) invest along side me through separate accounts. The only reason we have a $20,000 minimum is because I assume all of the trading and custody costs, which costs me about $120 per year.
Even though our fees are some of the lowest in the business (0.25% per quarter, $75 min.) on non-performance-only accounts, that minimum fee would be too high to overcome on a $5,000 or $10,000 account (6% or 3% per year, respectively).
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12/19/09
Allen
Oct 3rd, 2009
47 comments
More notes from Pabrai Funds Annual Meeting (via GuruFocus): http://www.gurufocus.com/...
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mathieu
Oct 4th, 2009
" I look in a lot of different places for stocks. 52-week low lists, below book value stocks, etc. This one (VOL) happened to be in the low price-to-book screen - along with a number of others I looked at."
You only need a few profitable investments so your first order of buisness should be to find out what kind of companies you want to invest in and use that criteria to narrow your field. When I find a stock, I watch the news feeds about that stock and often find other stocks that peak my interest. If you decide you don't have enough time to analyze the stocks you invest in, put your money elsewhere.
The "expertise" you'll need will come with experience. For example, if you decide you like to invest in net/nets you'll likely realize that they often trade under book value because they are in a deteriorating buisness where investors expect them to continue to operate so that the book value of the company decreases over time. Sometimes the book value is made up of inventory that loses value over time : a company selling blank vhs tapes would find their inventory had more value in the 80s than it does today. The easy part is the number crunching, evaluating the buisness model is the part that gets better with experience.
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Graham Jervis
Oct 4th, 2009
8 comments
there is also an excel program that uses Joe's investment process in terms of FCF, it was done by Sanjay Shetty of http://indiainvestor.word... this program has helped me alot along with Joe's book.
Check it out, hope it helps also. I am not sure if the excel program is endorsed by Joe, but they said it is based on the F Wall Street model
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Allen
Oct 5th, 2009
47 comments
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Saji
Oct 6th, 2009
1 comment
I have a question which would sound pretty basic. You mentioned "Though its earnings have fallen significantly and turned negative over the past two years, this hasn't caused a rapid cash burn". How do you calculate the cash burn rate, is it same as the owners earning?
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Joe Ponzio replied,
Yes. Owner earnings tell the story of cash burn from operations.
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12/19/09
buffetfan
Oct 13th, 2009
1 comment
Charlie Munger has said a number of times that in his previous life as an investor he thought if he could just get enough assets for the price he paid, things would turn out all right. He says he later learned the folly in this thinking and shifted his focus to competitive advantage and the strength of the underlying business.
What are your thoughts on this? I've been wrestling with this issue myself. DLIA is another stock that is selling cheaply on a quantitative basis, but its in a market that has fierce competition.
And to compound my confusion further, it seems many hardcore buffett/munger followers are ignoring buffett's advise about getting into great businesses at fair prices than fair businesses at great prices by going into stocks like DLIA.
thanks
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Joe Ponzio replied,
I think an investor can have both in his/her portfolio. Keep in mind that I think most people should not own stocks. Those that do should primarily own wonderful businesses at good prices. If, however, your job is to find undervalued businesses, you can incorporate some cigar butts as well.
Buffett has said that, if he were running $1 million, he'd be doing things drastically differently. With his/their portfolio, they have no choice – buy quality and hang on.
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12/19/09
Mark
Nov 3rd, 2009
17 comments
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Joe Ponzio replied,
SHRP and VOL were two very different opportunities. (For the record, we never bought SHRP – I simply said it might be worth exploring.)
VOL has (in my opinion) much better asset quality, is not burning through cash like SHRP was, and is not as sensitive to a weary consumer as SHRP was.
That said, if an investment goes south, you simply get back on your horse. Over the long-term, this stuff works.
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12/19/09
Adam Davis
Dec 12th, 2009
4 comments
Great post. Was wondering if you had taken any action on net-net's at all. Seems as though a lot of them are gone now. Hopefully we'll get another bite at the apple.
BTW: have you checked out the Greenbackd blog (www.greenbackd.com) - there's a ton of good stuff there on net-nets.
Looking forward to more posts.
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Joe Ponzio replied,
We own a few. Volt, and then two in the energy sector (BBEP and PETD) which were more "future net-nets" – companies that were trading for slightly less than book value, but that would likely experience a surge in cash flows and asset values when natural gas rebounded from its panic lows.
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12/19/09
Adam Davis replied,
Interesting look at the net-nets in energy with cash spillovers - sort of like what Wayne Gretzky said when "he skated to where the puck was going to be instead of where it was."
That could be a good way to look for some net-nets as the panic seems to have left the market for now.
I grabbed two net-nets of note in 09: VXGN and MATH. Got about as much of a puff as I could out of them and then threw the soggy butts away.
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12/30/09
1 reply
SHM
Jan 5th, 2010
1 comment
Hi, I am confused with the numbers that have been used in your analysis. Looking at the latest 10-Q which is dated on April of 2009, the Current Asset of that period is about 628.2 Million Dollars. The only number close to your 633.8 million current asset is from the 10-Q dated in January of 2009 which was about 633.5 million. Is there a reason for using this number and/or has there been something that I am not taking into account?
Also, regarding the total liabilities, it is shown in the April 2009 10-Q to be that of 428.6 million. Why have you used 411.2 million in your calculation rather than the total liability in the 10-Q?
Thank you very much and I hope to learn something new soon.
-SHM
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AWF
Jan 5th, 2010
As a MarketMinder.com contributor, I often hear this viewpoint. Recently, we published our take on this: http://www.marketminder.c...
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Your Name
Mar 13th, 2010