Folks — as you can imagine, I have been busy ripping through annual reports and financial statements like crazy. Hence the irregularity to my posting. Back in October of last year, I had a lot of time on my hands — the effects of a high market and few opportunities. That situation has reversed.
What am I looking for? The economy has been putting a squeeze on a lot of companies, slamming profit margins, revenues and earnings. When this happens, companies have to start shedding assets — human and physical — in an effort to return to normal levels of profitability. When profit margins are thin, the business' are at risk (think GM, Blockbuster). When profit margins are fat under normal conditions, the business is sound, even if it takes a substantial hit to sales.
So-called "bottom feeding" is the art of finding deeply discounted businesses that have a high probability of returning to "normal" conditions (ie., normal profit margins, normal owner's margins) when the dust settles. That's where you will find tomorrow's winners. (Note: This is also why quality of management and high owner's margins are so important. Bad management won't know what to do; thin profit margins can be too tough to overcome.)
It's far easier to tell what will happen than when it will happen.
Today's markets are a test of all the value investing reading, studying, and learning you've been doing over the past (days | weeks | months | years). When the markets are on the rise, it's easy to call yourself a value investor, pick a stock you think is underpriced, and make money. The true test is when the markets drop and you have the conviction to look at a business, figure out its worth under "normal" conditions, put your money to work, and then close your internet browser for a while.
And watch out for bonehead moves. It's easy to lose sight of the long-term when your portfolio is dropping a few percentage points each week. Don't play the markets unless you are 100% sure. When the Dow was at 13,000 last month, you could be pretty sure that it had topped out. (If you weren't sure, forget the rest of this discussion.) At that point, you could have purchased puts on the markets or otherwise taken advantage of some of the irrational exuberance. (The "Phew, that was close. Glad it's all over." sentiment on Wall Street.) In May 2008, the Dow 13,000 was way too high — I told a friend not to be surprised to see Dow 11,800. Now at 11,200, I have no idea whether or not we are oversold — I can't call a bottom nearly as clearly as I can see a top (at which my vision is murky at best).
GM at $10 a share? People are acting stunned. Five months ago, it was a $29 stock. But the threat of bankruptcy — or at least a very severe scaling back — was just as great then as it is today. I tried to short it but the nice people over at TD Ameritrade informed me I couldn't — that they didn't have any shares in inventory. (I guess TD Ameritrade clients don't like GM.) I know I said Don't Go Short on Overpriced Companies, but the GM play was entirely different. Read on:
When Apple was a $150-$160 company last year, shorting it at $186 would have been very risky — how could you have known whether the price would remain flat until value caught up or the price would drop to a level more commensurate with value? Shorting Apple, you're betting on the "when" instead of the "what". With GM, nothing but a miracle could have helped the business. In this case, I wasn't betting that GM's price would fall (the "when"); I was betting that GM's business would fall (the "what"). The price would eventually follow the value — in this case, practically none. (It's very similar to Ken Heebner's shorting of Countrywide last year in the high $40s.)
What's the point? Find what Wall Street calls "Fallen Angels" — great businesses that have fallen in price due to some temporary disruption, but that should return to profitability or "normalcy" in the next few months and years. Keep an eye out for "Falling Knifes" — businesses that are suffering (or are expected to suffer) so greatly that recovery is contingent on miracles or a very severe scaling back. Bet on what you know will happen; don't worry about the when.
To those of you whom have asked for the "owner earnings vs. free cash flow" email, I'll get it to tomorrow. Sorry for the delay; I just found it again last night.
Please wait while your comment is submitted. (It may take a moment.) Comments on F Wall Street are moderated which means that your comment will appear only after it has been reviewed by Joe. Comments are typically reviewed and approved (or denied) quickly, except between 11:30PM and 5:00AM (CST) – Joe has to sleep some time!
Thank you for participating on F Wall Street. Once your comment has been approved, it will appear here. While waiting, check out some other articles on the blog or click here to return to the article.
| Excel 2007 | | | Excel 2003 |
| (ZIP, 168kb) | (ZIP, 138kb) |
Mon @ 12:45PM | View comment
g said,
good timing!
BreitBurn Energy: Playing the Commodities Crash
Sun @ 1:14AM | View comment
mike said,
ROIC is not based on earnings. it's just EBIT * (1-t) / invested capital. The flaw with ROIC...
What The Heck Is CROIC?
Thu @ 8:00AM | View comment
Cale Smith said,
New Ponzio Capital site looks great, Joe, and good to see you back posting!
BreitBurn Energy: Playing the Commodities Crash
Wed @ 5:50PM | View comment
kalidasa said,
in correction to an earlier post, it is Sham Gad(www.gadcapital.com) or www.shamgad.blogspot.com
Hedge Funds and the Early Buffett Partnership
Tue @ 3:29PM | View comment
Joe Ponzio said,
I think it got overheated. I still feel like it's a good long-term holding (if the buy price is right)....
Is Nutrisystem Healthy?
Tue @ 2:48PM | View comment
Nutrisystem Coupon said,
Dude, what happened to this stock? You would think in January this stock would be jumping through the roof...
Is Nutrisystem Healthy?
Rene
Jul 2nd, 2008
80 comments
It's the best of times for value investors. I do believe, however, that the best deals you can find today will be better in a few months. I guess that makes me the most foolish of all "investors", a market timer.
( REPLY | PERMALINK )
Amit D.
Jul 2nd, 2008
10 comments
( REPLY | PERMALINK )
Rene
Jul 4th, 2008
80 comments
( REPLY | PERMALINK )
joe
Jul 8th, 2008
1 comment
So how were you to determine that the Dow was overpriced and may drop to 11,800?
( REPLY | PERMALINK )
BPal
Jul 10th, 2008
( REPLY | PERMALINK )
Jae Jun
Jul 10th, 2008
Anyways, we all have our own clothes, and no one is forcing anyone to wear theirs.
( REPLY | PERMALINK )
Joe Ponzio
Jul 10th, 2008
Joe on twitter
Ponzio Capital
BPal: I try to make smart business decisions and look to invest when others are doing foolish things. It's no different than when Buffett is buying or selling options against the markets or engaging in workouts or arbitrage. 80% of what I do in the stock market is look for underpriced companies that I can hold forever, or at least until price approaches my estimation of value. 40% of what I do is look for opportunities made available by the fear or folly of others.
Read the post again - particularly the paragraph that starts with the discussion of Apple. As a stock trader/speculator, I have proven (to myself) time and time again that I am a miserable failure with absolutely no tolerance for price fluctuations. Because of that, I do not trade or try and profit from short-term fluctuations.
That said, when opportunities arise where people are doing foolish things and I have an opportunity to profit, I don't think according the name "speculator" is appropriate just because things can happen fast.
What is the difference between going long in an underpriced business and shorting a doomed-to-fail business? Very little. Why would Buffett sell puts against the S&P or I short the DJIA? He bet a small portion of Berkshire's assets that the markets would move very little or up; I bet a small portion that they would move down. We both made educated gambles based on rational business decisions because we felt that people, as a group, were being foolish.
Make sense?
( REPLY | PERMALINK )
Bootstrap
Jul 19th, 2008
1 comment
Thanks for the post. Like you, I rooting around in unloved sectors. I recently did a post on Cheesecake Factory, Inc. on my blog - how do you feel about consumer discretionary in general - and restaurants in particular. Two things I'm worried about. Being (too) early is the same thing as being wrong. And the eventual pricing power that restaurants may have.
Thanks again, and keep posting!
( REPLY | PERMALINK )
Joe Ponzio
Jul 23rd, 2008
Joe on twitter
Ponzio Capital
I'm not crazy about restaurants, but I'm not crazy against them. They are just there for me (like most industries). If the company gets cheap enough and it is strong enough, I'll buy. That said, I would not get as excited over a CAKE as I would if a Coca-Cola type franchise was being given away.
The consumer? The consumer is cutting back, and will likely continue to do so. Still, the companies that can adjust to this, but are priced like they are going away -- that's where we'll find great opportunities.
( REPLY | PERMALINK )
Your Name
Feb 9th, 2010