A few weeks back, I sent an e-mail to our advisers talking about the "no-brainer" type investments we are looking for. I wrote a nice, long e-mail (in true Joe fashion) about discounted cash flow and valuing businesses, about speculation versus investing - it was practically a novel in and of itself. Then, I deleted the whole thing, and started from scratch.
The way I figured it, you shouldn't have to be a rocket scientist to understand "no-brainer" investing. Here's a recap of what I wrote:
What is an investment? As I've told you in the past, I'm a big fan of putting money in when an opportunity jumps out at me. Let's look at (and use) the definition Ben Graham laid out in 1934:
An investment operation is one which, upon thorough analysis, promises safety of principal and a satisfactory return. Operations not meeting these requirements are speculative.
I have a $100 bill for sale, but it comes with a catch: You have to pay me today and I'll deliver the bill in five years. Right now, thousands of people are bidding on this bill. I've got offers as high as $86 and as low as $50. What's it worth to you? To truly understand the opportunity being offered, we apply Graham's 3-point definition - the foundation of all investing.
For this example, we'll simply assume that you will know where to find me in five years, and that I'll have at least $100 to my name. Safety of principal is a non-issue here.
When analyzing companies, you must thoroughly analyze the prospects of the company, the management, the financials, and the future outlook - not just for tomorrow, but for five and ten years from now. In workouts, you must thoroughly analyze the terms of the deal, the price offered, the timeline, and the risks involved.
Thorough Analysis means an in-depth analysis of the opportunity, not just the price. (That's why some horrible companies can present attractive investment opportunities from time to time.)
For my $100 bill offer, you must thoroughly analyze the opportunity - what will this $100 bill be worth in five years? (We assume you know what a $100 bill is and that the US Government is guaranteeing that it will remain as legal tender.) Right now, inflation is running about 3% a year. (I can't remember the last time I saw just a 3% increase in anything. A discussion for another time.) Five years from now, my $100 bill will be worth $85.87 in today's dollars. If inflation is higher - say, 6% - the bill will be worth just $73.39 in today's dollars. Your thorough analysis leads you to believe that inflation will be about 5% over the next five years, and that this $100 bill will be worth $77.38 in today's dollars.
We now know (a) your principal is safe because I'm personally guaranteeing the $100 bill and that guarantee is good, and (b) after careful consideration and analysis of the US economy and inflation, I'm offering you $77.38 in today's value.
Now, a little math. I'm going to present the actual math so that you can see the numbers; then, I'm going to show you the "no-brainer" way to buy $100 bills. Not a math person? Don't be scared, just follow along for the explanation.
You want to earn at least 10% on your money each year, net of inflation. You have an opportunity to buy $77.38 of value, net of inflation. If you offer me $77.38, you can expect to break dead-even. Offer me more, and you will lose money to inflation, even if you make $20 or so in real dollars.
So, what's the price you can pay?
Excel tells me that the present value of this $100 bill is $48.05, assuming 5% inflation and a 10% after-inflation return. Said another way, you can offer me $48.05 today and expect to earn 15% a year for five years (10% a year after 5% annual inflation) and to end up with $77.38 in today's dollars.
We now turn back to Safety of Principal We initially assumed that (a) you knew where to find me, (b) I'd have $100 to my name, and (c) the United States would still be honoring today's $100 bills as legal tender. In reality, you don't know exactly where I'll be and you can't follow me around all day. (Just like in stocks. We have officers and directors to "follow the company around all day" because we can't. And that's a risk.)
Enter the Margin of Safety. At $48.05, everything would have to play out as planned for you to earn 10%, net of inflation. If I'm not around, you lose money. To protect yourself from this risk, you decide to split your money up. Rather than buying one $100 bill from me for $48.05, you choose to buy two $100 bills - one from me, one from another guy in another town also offering $100 bills. With $48.05 to spend, you offer each of us $24.02, and refuse to pay any more than that. You demand a 50% Margin of Safety.
Doing so, you have cut your risk in half. If both of us are around in five years, you'll earn much more than 10% because you'll have bought $77.38 of value for just $24.02 - and did it twice - for an average annual return of 26%. If one of us can't cough up the $100, you'll still be paid on the other. You'll lose 100% on one investment, but earn 26% on the other, netting you 10% after inflation. You would have still invested a total of $48.05 and ended up with one $100 bill.
(Diversify? You can't put all your eggs in one basket, nor should you put each egg in a separate basket.)
To truly understand this opportunity, you must have an understanding of inflation, the direction of the economy over the next five years, discounted cash flow, and more. To identify a "no-brainer" investment, you must be able to fully understand the offer.
In common stocks, you must understand the business and its future; in workouts, you must know the terms and the risks. "No-brainers" only appear easy if you have put some thought into the opportunity.
If I offered you the above $100 bill deal, you know exactly what price to pay because we just went through all the math, we analyzed the risks, and we attacked the problem from all sides. And now that you have a somewhat intimate knowledge of how to buy $100 bills, use it to find opportunities.
For sale: $50 bills, payable in five years. $6.74, or best offer.
Want one?
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david
Feb 29th, 2008
Buffett compared identifying undervalued stocks to identifying a fat person: you might not know if they are 130 or 150 pounds overweight, but you can tell that they are quite fat.
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edward
Feb 29th, 2008
9 comments
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Night
Feb 29th, 2008
72 comments
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Wayne
Feb 29th, 2008
6 comments
Yes, I'll pay $6.74. I'll even pay more for large amounts. How many can I buy?
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Ed
Feb 29th, 2008
I am new to financial math, so could you please explain how "Excel tells me that the present value of this $100 bill is $48.05". I now how to use excel, but I can't figure out how you got the $48.05.
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david
Feb 29th, 2008
I'm not sure I get your point.
Buffet's quote was something like:
"You don't need to know a person's exact weight to tell if she was fat.."
So...
You don't need to know a stocks exact intrinsic value to know if it is _______.
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Josh
Feb 29th, 2008
2 comments
I had the same question.
Joe,
When I plug, =NPV(5%,0,0,0,0,100) I end up with $78.35, not $77.38. Further, if I evaluate the net present value of the same amount ($100) at 15% adjusting for my acceptable return an inflation I get $49.72.
What am I missing?
Regardless of mathematical nuance, thanks for the post and the site in general. I read posts as they're made and appreciate your willingness to share.
Best,
Josh
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BlahBlah
Feb 29th, 2008
Which brings me to a question. You stated a well known truth that I've always had a problem with(I just like good management, a high ROE and a wide moat)
"That's why some horrible companies can present attractive investment opportunities from time to time"
I know you shun the black boxes called banks, but how would C fair under that quote? Like a moth to a flame, I am draw to fear and love to take advantage of it. I simply can not bring myself to buying garbage even at deep discounts.
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mark
Mar 1st, 2008
17 comments
Everything I have studied on value investing and the buffet world claims it is not important what the economy is doing if you are buying a wonderful business at a discounted price.
Is the concern for inflation more important when deciding on bond investments since the return is predetermined rather then stock investments? Should we be incorporating inflation into our margin of safety in our valuations for stock investiments?
Mark
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Art
Mar 1st, 2008
4 comments
I don't do this full-time and lean on excel to help crunch financials efficiently. I'd like to be sure I'm doing this the right way and would appreciate an example. Do you have an excel template for your stock analysis method? I've created one following "The New Buffetology" book and workbook, but the books don't have exact formulas for each of the 12 financial calculations. I suspect that's because the writer recommends a less mechanical analysis method, but time is an issue for me. If I have to use a mechanical method I'd at least like to be using the correct formulas.
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EMueller
Mar 1st, 2008
1 comment
I come up with the same numbers as Josh for the NPV calculations.
What do you think are the odds of me finding you in 5 years? :)
EAM
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Joe Ponzio
Mar 1st, 2008
Joe on twitter
Ponzio Capital
Ed & David: Two sides, same coin (in my opinion).
- He wears size 60 jeans. No need to know his exact weight, or
- He's 450 pounds. No need to see him to know these size 32 jeans won't fit.
Josh & Ed: The formula I used was the FV (future value) formula in Excel:=FV(-5%,5,0,-100)
Your formula calculates: How much do I need to invest today at 5% growth to end up with a final amount of $100. We need to know: How much will $100 be worth if it falls at 5%. These are two different questions.
Think of it in terms of gaining vs. losing 5% a year on an investment. After 5 years, $1000 would grow to $1,276 - a gain of $276 - or fall to $774 - a loss of $226. Both changed 5% a year, but the dollar amounts were different.
Try this: =NPV(-5%,0,0,0,0,77.38). You'll end up with $100 - the present value of $77.38 five years from now, assuming a 5% drop each year.
(Ed, five years from now, I hope to be right here. ☺)
BlahBlah: I don't shun banks, I'm just not willing to put money in at seemingly "attractive" levels because I don't have confidence in my assessment of "attractive". That said, if I were to see something silly going on, I'd consider an investment.
The sub-prime mess is real, and I can't judge how deeply it will affect the banks so I don't feel good right now. Back in the 1960s when American Express got crushed for losing money on salad oil/sea water, I would have considered buying because it wasn't a fundamental business problem.
Are Citi's problems fundamental to their business as a bank and to what extent? I don't know exactly, so I can't feel good. But, if the stock was getting kicked in the teeth because they misplaced $4 billion of sea water, I'd be all over it.
Mark: When buying businesses, you need to factor in inflation to the extent that the following can be answered: Can this business raise prices to match or beat inflation? Inflation is not a concern to Coca-Cola because it can do just that. It is, however, a concern to Fortress Investments (FIG) - a company that relies on (a) aggregating new assets and (b) growing existing assets, because revenues are/seem to be directly tied to the performance and breadth of the assets managed. FIG's industry hovers around charging 1% or so of assets managed and, no matter how bad inflation gets, that fee can't really go much above, say, 2% or investors will leave for "cheaper" funds.
In the asset management business, it is all about performance and fees. Investors are rarely loyal (in mutual funds), competition is fierce, and pricing is generally fixed. As such, inflation can be a concern.
That's why I like to just stay away from such difficult problems.
Art: There are some Excel spreadsheets floating around the net and on some of the posts on this site, but they should only be used as preliminary screeners. Each company requires a thorough analysis, one that can not be performed by Excel. Check out some of the past posts (I know there's one for the Johnson & Johnson post).
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StayRational
Mar 1st, 2008
The intricacies, however, makes the game all the more interesting....good investing everyone.
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BlahBlah
Mar 1st, 2008
Buffett has owned WFC for a long time and also owns BAC
I also hold both(my only US banks but not because of Buffett but my own research)
Any insight in to why Buffett holds them? Belief in management and/or brand? Both are vulnerable to the mortgage mess.
My reasoning has been that banks are cash machines, even poor ones can make money(Buffett's quote about even an idiot can run them). Subprime will end someday and the cash machine will start paying off again.
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kfh227
Mar 4th, 2008
27 comments
Thoughts anyone?
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silversurfer
Jun 17th, 2008
First, congrats to your site, I discovered it yesterday and already love it.
Regarding your $100 example above:
I can follow the 5% annual inflation example where $100 in 5 years are worth $77.38 today.
However for the 15% annual inflation (or 5% inflation, 10% return) example I get a different result from Excel. I got $44.37 instead 48.05.
Not sure whether I'm missing something.
Cheers,
SS
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Joe Ponzio
Jun 19th, 2008
Joe on twitter
Ponzio Capital
kfh: Not sure about BAC and Buffett specifically for the reason you mentioned — it's hard to tell what Buffett bought and what was purchased by managers in his subsidiary companies. Personally, I think this $4 billion CFC acquisition is downright stupid so I wouldn't go near BAC for at least a while longer.
SS: Check out the questions Josh and Ed had, and my response to them. If that doesn't answer it, send me an email.
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rona
Jul 9th, 2008
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Your Name
Mar 13th, 2010